It's been a while since I had such a great time reading an article. I've always loved your writing, Georgina. Never let anybody talk to you like that again. The world is full of people that have some serious shadow work to so. I think they're there to keep the rest of us busy creating horror stories around their miserable and pathetic existence. 😉
I'm surprised she doesn't have her own Substack, using it to sell to fucking idiots 'how to be a writer'. And people keep falling for such bullshit, it makes my piss boil. IN MY BLADDER.
Right now those ranks are currently filling up with the self-righteous shaming around any use of AI tools in the creative process. Yet, I can appreciate a person like the Butcher's fear of AI becasue it CAN write better than she can. It can also spit out nonsense gobldeygoop langague on par with the best of the intelligencia. AI isn't killing real artists, but I think it's highlighting the fakes pretty well.
Oh, it's HUGELY divisive. There's a very vocal minority who shame like crazy. I've written a bunch on the topic (as the first link goes into detail) but if you want a fun, short video, I explain AI use with my own writing and where it works, where it doesn't, and what not to forget about creativity:
I trained as a teacher, and consequently, I would react almost violently when people used to quote “those that can do and those who can’t teach’.
I’m afraid to say, though that in the creative world that is often the case. When I had a small production company, I was approached by postgraduate film student looking for employment. He was bright but I had no need for an additional member of staff. Two years later I took on a student for work experience and it turned out that the student’s supervisor was the aforementioned postgrad student, who now with no practical commercial experience was teaching film production.
I had a similar experience, years earlier when I enrolled for a Masters in scriptwriting where it appeared the most of the staff were still basically wannabes.
There is a kind of academic/creative pyramid scheme, whereby an MFA qualifies a writer to teach an MFA. Many writers have little aptitude for teaching and so as the years pass, the quality and credibility of such courses lessens.
I was a teacher for many years and am frequently offended by seeing writers passing themselves off as teachers - often doing more harm than good.
One of the funniest Substacks I've ever read. I'm sharing it. And by the way, it's not just Crunchem Hall--nearly all postgrad 'Creative Writing' courses are like that, or worse. I know because I used to be a professor on one. You might find Our Parent Who Art in Heaven amusing, actually. It's a satire on Creative Writing courses. Forgive me if that seems an unsubtle plug
I wasn't referring to a post--it's a satirical novel, published in 2022. If you live in the UK, I could send you a copy next time I'm there, if you're interested.
Have you considering sending her this with the note, "I was just reflecting on how much your class meant to me--thought you might find this interesting 😘"?
Haha wow, I so want a DM naming names. There are some terrible CW tutors out there and she sounds appalling. Egotism and insecurity about her own talents underlies this bad behaviour of course. This is why I love Goldsmiths, where I work. They only hire writers who are secure in their own talents and are also compassionate human beings.
Tell you what I did learn on that course, which was how to be a better teacher. I’d already had twenty or thirty short stories published and been shortlisted for a couple of prizes, plus I had an incredible mentor who gave me a lot of support. So even though I couldn’t write for years afterwards, I eventually got it together. I do sometimes wonder how many writers she permanently crushed. Of course, she only picked on the good ones.
I vowed that I would always be conscious and careful not to crush a writer’s spirit. Teaching is such a privilege and responsibility - I think there are a lot of CW tutors out there who don’t know what the hell they’re doing and they’re wreaking damage all over the place. Even nice people can be terrible teachers.
True that. Same thing for me - I learned how to facilitate constructive workshops where no-one comes out feeling damaged after attending a couple where I felt absolutely eviscerated! Thus good arises out of evil :-)
Yep! There's just no need to destroy people. Plus, we all write crap sometimes. It's important to be able to show how and why a piece has failed without making the writer feel like they're an idiot who can't string a sentence together.
But I have to say I'm in a small minority of people who found this tutor awful. My classmates thought she practically walked on water. They literally applauded her every time she paused for breath in one of her two-hour long lectures about point of view. And most of them stopped speaking to me when they realised that the tutor didn't like me. Even now, I sometimes hear people praising her genius.
I think you can be tough on the work, particularly if its shortcomings are clearly the result of laziness, without being tough on the person. If you don't hold students to a high standard, many will produce lazy, sloppy, derivative work. But in my opinion you should never be tough on people who have clearly done their best.
That last sentence--is it irony? I have known very few writers secure in their own talents who are also compassionate human beings. I've known plenty who pretended to have those traits. But perhaps you're lucky.
No, genuinely, I have (and have had) many colleagues at Goldsmiths who are both secure in their talents and compassionate. Blake Morrison, Maura Dooley, Jack Underwood, Francis Spufford, Ross Raisin, Tom Lee, Naomi Wood... and I'd like to include myself in that list, but only my students would be the people to confirm.
It sounds as if by pure luck (or is it karma?) you have landed in one of those unicorn-rare wonderful programmes. Lucky you. I believe they exist, and existed more commonly in the mythical past. As for yourself--now don't be so modest! You know very well whether you are secure in your talents! And whether you are genuinely compassionate, or just pretending to be, as some of my colleagues used to. I would say I'm both, too--and just more honest ('brutally honest', as my students used to say) than some of the others. But only about the work. What's really damaging is when you denigrate the work in order to disparage the person.
I agree with you fully. No-one should ever feel personally attacked. When people join my workshops I remind them from the outset we are finding out how the text lands with a selection of readers and it is *never* about the person. The workshop I've been running for 10 years for the Poetry School has a fantastic vibe (it has a kind of rolling membership) where the older hands bring the new ones on board with the culture of the group just by doing that: there is always the sense that we want the best for the poet and their poems, and want to help them find out what's working and what isn't. And haha I have also been described as 'brutally honest'; but always focused on the work and never denigrating the person, who is just doing their best to express themselves, sometimes taking risks and failing, as we all do. I see you subscribed; thank you! I hope you enjoy my Friday posts.
Your classes sound similar to the ones I had, at least the better ones. Goldsmiths used to have a lot of older students, I remember (I once had a girlfriend there), which may help too, if that's still so. I found the graduate students a lot easier to work with, on the whole, than the undergrads. And don't mention it. I'm enjoying the Substack experience, discovering work by so many interesting people. Thanks for subscribing to mine too. Feel free to comment, even if you disagree strongly. I never take it personally.
It's been a while since I had such a great time reading an article. I've always loved your writing, Georgina. Never let anybody talk to you like that again. The world is full of people that have some serious shadow work to so. I think they're there to keep the rest of us busy creating horror stories around their miserable and pathetic existence. 😉
Thanks so much for these kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the post ❤️
I'm surprised she doesn't have her own Substack, using it to sell to fucking idiots 'how to be a writer'. And people keep falling for such bullshit, it makes my piss boil. IN MY BLADDER.
Ouch! But yes, she probably does.
Right now those ranks are currently filling up with the self-righteous shaming around any use of AI tools in the creative process. Yet, I can appreciate a person like the Butcher's fear of AI becasue it CAN write better than she can. It can also spit out nonsense gobldeygoop langague on par with the best of the intelligencia. AI isn't killing real artists, but I think it's highlighting the fakes pretty well.
https://www.polymathicbeing.com/p/ai-isnt-killing-artists
I'm writing about AI next week, I think. I'm not hugely pro or anti. I do think that it's becoming a very divisive issue for writers.
Oh, it's HUGELY divisive. There's a very vocal minority who shame like crazy. I've written a bunch on the topic (as the first link goes into detail) but if you want a fun, short video, I explain AI use with my own writing and where it works, where it doesn't, and what not to forget about creativity:
https://youtu.be/psHFoic0fn0?si=p0B0aBDYKs8qpv9O
I trained as a teacher, and consequently, I would react almost violently when people used to quote “those that can do and those who can’t teach’.
I’m afraid to say, though that in the creative world that is often the case. When I had a small production company, I was approached by postgraduate film student looking for employment. He was bright but I had no need for an additional member of staff. Two years later I took on a student for work experience and it turned out that the student’s supervisor was the aforementioned postgrad student, who now with no practical commercial experience was teaching film production.
I had a similar experience, years earlier when I enrolled for a Masters in scriptwriting where it appeared the most of the staff were still basically wannabes.
There is a kind of academic/creative pyramid scheme, whereby an MFA qualifies a writer to teach an MFA. Many writers have little aptitude for teaching and so as the years pass, the quality and credibility of such courses lessens.
I was a teacher for many years and am frequently offended by seeing writers passing themselves off as teachers - often doing more harm than good.
And they wonder why all writers are self-absorbed, neurotic bed-wetters. With trust issues.
Who... wonders this?
They. Them. Those people that we just know are judging us negatively. Or is just me judging myself? Crap. That question will keep me up tonight.
When it comes to being judged, i try to remember the words of Dr Seuss: those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
Yes, you’re right. I also like “Why blend in when you were born to stand out.: Wise dude Dr Seuss
Man rough ! Im lucky to have never been taught a thing about writing.
That dosnt make me any better... but at least Im not smart enough to know that I might not be good.
Ignorance is bliss :)
You always know if you're any good at writing. And if you care to, you can always improve!
One of the funniest Substacks I've ever read. I'm sharing it. And by the way, it's not just Crunchem Hall--nearly all postgrad 'Creative Writing' courses are like that, or worse. I know because I used to be a professor on one. You might find Our Parent Who Art in Heaven amusing, actually. It's a satire on Creative Writing courses. Forgive me if that seems an unsubtle plug
Thanks! Happy you enjoyed it, and I'll check out your post.
I wasn't referring to a post--it's a satirical novel, published in 2022. If you live in the UK, I could send you a copy next time I'm there, if you're interested.
Oh okay, sounds good!
Have you considering sending her this with the note, "I was just reflecting on how much your class meant to me--thought you might find this interesting 😘"?
Haha no! I've dealt with enough sociopaths in my time to know that is very unwise.
For sure. That was definitely not advice meant to be taken.
But it was meant to be enjoyed in thought :)
Ha, I guessed as much! No, I hope to never ever hear of her ever again :)
Haha wow, I so want a DM naming names. There are some terrible CW tutors out there and she sounds appalling. Egotism and insecurity about her own talents underlies this bad behaviour of course. This is why I love Goldsmiths, where I work. They only hire writers who are secure in their own talents and are also compassionate human beings.
Tell you what I did learn on that course, which was how to be a better teacher. I’d already had twenty or thirty short stories published and been shortlisted for a couple of prizes, plus I had an incredible mentor who gave me a lot of support. So even though I couldn’t write for years afterwards, I eventually got it together. I do sometimes wonder how many writers she permanently crushed. Of course, she only picked on the good ones.
I vowed that I would always be conscious and careful not to crush a writer’s spirit. Teaching is such a privilege and responsibility - I think there are a lot of CW tutors out there who don’t know what the hell they’re doing and they’re wreaking damage all over the place. Even nice people can be terrible teachers.
True that. Same thing for me - I learned how to facilitate constructive workshops where no-one comes out feeling damaged after attending a couple where I felt absolutely eviscerated! Thus good arises out of evil :-)
Yep! There's just no need to destroy people. Plus, we all write crap sometimes. It's important to be able to show how and why a piece has failed without making the writer feel like they're an idiot who can't string a sentence together.
But I have to say I'm in a small minority of people who found this tutor awful. My classmates thought she practically walked on water. They literally applauded her every time she paused for breath in one of her two-hour long lectures about point of view. And most of them stopped speaking to me when they realised that the tutor didn't like me. Even now, I sometimes hear people praising her genius.
Damn, I'd love to know who this is. Although you said she doesn't write. That's odd. Or was that hyperbole?
No. Everything I wrote was the truth.
You have to be careful, when talking to fiction writers. We tend towards mendacity... in the interests of noble ends, of course...
I think you can be tough on the work, particularly if its shortcomings are clearly the result of laziness, without being tough on the person. If you don't hold students to a high standard, many will produce lazy, sloppy, derivative work. But in my opinion you should never be tough on people who have clearly done their best.
The majority are just following the formulae. It's easy that way, but not remotely creative.
That last sentence--is it irony? I have known very few writers secure in their own talents who are also compassionate human beings. I've known plenty who pretended to have those traits. But perhaps you're lucky.
No, genuinely, I have (and have had) many colleagues at Goldsmiths who are both secure in their talents and compassionate. Blake Morrison, Maura Dooley, Jack Underwood, Francis Spufford, Ross Raisin, Tom Lee, Naomi Wood... and I'd like to include myself in that list, but only my students would be the people to confirm.
It sounds as if by pure luck (or is it karma?) you have landed in one of those unicorn-rare wonderful programmes. Lucky you. I believe they exist, and existed more commonly in the mythical past. As for yourself--now don't be so modest! You know very well whether you are secure in your talents! And whether you are genuinely compassionate, or just pretending to be, as some of my colleagues used to. I would say I'm both, too--and just more honest ('brutally honest', as my students used to say) than some of the others. But only about the work. What's really damaging is when you denigrate the work in order to disparage the person.
I agree with you fully. No-one should ever feel personally attacked. When people join my workshops I remind them from the outset we are finding out how the text lands with a selection of readers and it is *never* about the person. The workshop I've been running for 10 years for the Poetry School has a fantastic vibe (it has a kind of rolling membership) where the older hands bring the new ones on board with the culture of the group just by doing that: there is always the sense that we want the best for the poet and their poems, and want to help them find out what's working and what isn't. And haha I have also been described as 'brutally honest'; but always focused on the work and never denigrating the person, who is just doing their best to express themselves, sometimes taking risks and failing, as we all do. I see you subscribed; thank you! I hope you enjoy my Friday posts.
Your classes sound similar to the ones I had, at least the better ones. Goldsmiths used to have a lot of older students, I remember (I once had a girlfriend there), which may help too, if that's still so. I found the graduate students a lot easier to work with, on the whole, than the undergrads. And don't mention it. I'm enjoying the Substack experience, discovering work by so many interesting people. Thanks for subscribing to mine too. Feel free to comment, even if you disagree strongly. I never take it personally.
Think more along the lines of "evil pixie"
What a wonderful thing to say and to hear! Thanks so much and I hope you find lots to enjoy!